PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

saw flop|saw showdown

BB ($61.30)
UTG ($99.90)
MP ($109.60)
CO ($323.05)
Button ($105.95)
Hero ($197.20)

Preflop: Hero is SB with , .
1 fold, MP raises to $4, CO calls $4, 1 fold, Hero raises to $15, 1 fold, MP calls $11, CO calls $11.

Flop: ($46) , , (3 players)
Hero bets $32, MP folds, CO raises to $288, Hero ???!?!?!?



I'm playing 24/20/3 and relatively solid. Nothing maniac.

CO is 16/9 over just 20ish hands so not that relative. Seems relatively solid. Stacked some donkey with KK.

Initial opener is horrible. Ships any pair, etc.

Can I also get some discussion on 3-bet size.

That's a pretty mental shove. I can't see it being a set on a board that dry, because he is folding out a lot of hands that would otherwise give him action (99-QQ) which you could play similarly. Which leads me to think thats what he's holding. So I'd call.

I'm fine with preflop. Anything from $15-$18 seems OK.

phil hellmuth instacall.

Dry board. KK. Call. If he has AA, more power to him

Hmmm

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bN8_gO1_Njg

Brad Booth v. Phil Ivey KK?

Edit: Reads are on.

Gabe Kaplan is a really good commentator on this show. I think better than WPT because there is more play.

I have this horrid feeling that you're up against a set or AA A LOT here. I might puke call, I might puke fold, it really depends. That's pretty gross though.

I might make it 16-18 preflop just because I'm OOP.



I somehow doubt this is what is going on in this hand. The 'ol flat call a raise, and then flat call a threebet from a later player is almost always a mid-pair. So pukey.

What else could he have on a board like this? I feel like this is a set alot or a stupidly slowplayed JJ+ less often.

How can we put villain on a set here? 32 to 288. Who would bet this much with 66 on a dry board?

I agree. Its a throw up call. I put him on TT/JJ trying to end the hand.

A person who wants us to instacall with KK or AA while saying "Ha! He wouldn't bet that much with a set!" I've been guilty of the fast play shove with a set on a dry board hoping the guy wakes up with a big purr and puts me on a donked A8 .

Yeah. It's impossible to put a sneaky villain on the right hand here.

I think I call because it's KK.

We beat 99 tt jj qq

We lose to AA and sets. I wouldn't AT ALL be surprised to see 222. Could be a smart ass two pair.

We chop KK.

I think there's enough hands that do this that we need to call.
We have outs on ANYTHING that does this.

uhm, this is a set here like 100% of the time imo.

Look at what happened... He smooth called MPs opener, then smooth called heros reraise. He's seen hero exude a lot of strength. He's only put money into the pot 16% of the time. I really don't see someone that you think is 'solid' being this deep and stacking off with anything less than a set here.

This is never AA. If it was AA, he would have smooth called the droolers opener, then when you rerpopped it, it would have reraised you, and you would have been like wtfbbq is going on. Fold.

Disagree.

Not that I don't appreciate your thoughts and comments guys but how is this EVER AA?

This is what I think is going on in this hand



I am guilty of pulling that move once in a while, but that was later into a session. I think he is pushing here hoping to get someone off the hand that he has (range of TT-QQ). I can see the set scare, but I'm calling here

Why exactly are you disagreeing? I can understand its not 100% (he did say "like 100%" btw), but I'm willing to say it's something like 90%, which is basically the same.




It hardly ever is, but usually when this isn't a set, it is AA or air. I'm finding it incredibly hard to put this guy on Queens or Jacks.



I have no idea why you guys tend to discount that this could be a set because of the shove, but are willing to believe he'd flat call a raise from a retard preflop with 1010-QQ, flat a 3bet from another player, and then donk shove against a normal cbet on this dry board when he's only ever getting called by hands that he's crushed by, especially for 200bbs.

If you think he's capable of pulling one of the worse play in NLHE here (shoving to push out a player he's hoping missed with AK or trying to push out an overpair), then you have to believe that he is VERY capable of showing up with 222, 666, or 888. Personally, I think this is 222 so much that our life sucks.

The more I think about this, the more and more I'm leaning towards a fold rather than a pukecall.

Yo.

If you're disagreeing that its most likely a set lets do a walk:

1) What are you putting villain on.

2) What do you think villain is putting you on


2a) Why do you think villain is putting you on this hand (example: You think he's putting you on a wide range of hands, because you 3 bet a lot, or, conversely, he's putting you on a big hand, like aces or kings, because your 3-bet range is tight)
2b) Given what you think the Villain thinks you have, why is he doing what he's doing? If he thinks you 3 bet light, was he just check raising to get you to fold your overs? Has he seen you unable to lay down an overpair, so he knows that he can just go ahead and get it all in with his set?


You said you saw villain have KK before, how did he play it? Did he 3-bet preflop, or just call a raise? That will answer the AA question, I believe.

The other problem I have here is the board isnt x78 or x45 or x56, etc... his range seems fairly tight (even though its a small sample) that if we're including sooted connectors in it, i dont know if we can include gap suited connectors, so I'm having a hard time believing this is a cr semi bluff with 57 or 79.

I have a hard time folding over pairs, but look call, call, check raise screams set to me.

Some people view aces as being invincible, so they don't push the action heavily preflop and they think they are getting tricky by just calling. I don't think we see someone flat call twice preflop with AA very often but it will happen occasionally. We will see JJ-QQ more often, some people like to wait to see that no overcards hit the flop before putting in tonnes of money.

This still smells like a set to me more than JJ+ but I don't know whether to call or fold. I'd probably call if I was playing the hand with only 30secs or whatever to make the decision but I'm leaning more towards fold after thinking about it a bit longer.

It's probably a pretty marginal decision.

I think that this is one of those marginal decisions where you can deduce how much of a POW you are. I mean, I pay people off more than DN, but I really want nothing to do with this hand after thinking about it a little longer.

Yeah, now thinking about the hand for a while I definitely see the set b/c I think I have pulled the fast play set a little more than I thought at first. But I'm happy it wasn't me in the hand. I hope you called and he flipped up JJ though. It is just a tough situation

Sorry, but i'd be happier to stack of on a drawy board here.

This is a set knowing you can't fold an overpair so often it's disgusting...

that being said I can't fold an overpair... bc somehow i'd convince myself this was 5-7

I could very conceivably see this being AA beause from my experience people who double cold-call PF with AA always seem to make some retarded over-raise on the flop, though it is unlikely.

Without reads i don't think it matters too much whether you call or fold as either way you can't really come to an accurate informed decision either way.

Like, if we'd been playing with this player for a while and had a read that he always re-raise TT+ PF and often makes big over-raises with nut hands, then it would most probably be a mistake to call, and vice-versa if we had a read he was splashy and liked to make extravagant bluffs then it would be a mistake to fold.

As it is, none of us know, so i think both options are basically equal.

Wohoo... finally I get to fold another hand here...

villain had proper odds to set mine. Villain can savely assume you have a hand big enough to not lay down.

90% of the time this is a strange play of his set given that you have two outs. But then again villain doesn't know if your outs are kings or aces or queens to fill up. So he is getting his money in "good".

20% of the time viallain has TT or JJ or QQ and wants to prevent you from drawing to overcards.

100% of the time I can't do proper percantage calculations.

Still... I can get away from my overpair here. What makes this even sweeter is that villain sees I can fold to a push and may try to push more often, where I will sooner or later have the best of it

If it helps any, this was the Villain's KK hand.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

saw flop|saw showdown

SB ($91.20)
BB ($137.75)
UTG ($19.95)
MP ($111.65)
CO ($61.70)
Hero ($208.70)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 7, J.
UTG calls $1, MP raises to $5, CO raises to $9, 3 folds, UTG folds, MP raises to $27, CO calls $18.

Flop: ($56.50) Q, Q, Q (2 players)
MP bets $35, CO calls $34.70 (All-In).

Turn: ($125.90) T (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($125.90) 6 (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $125.90

Results in white below:
MP has Kd Ks (full house, queens full of kings).
CO doesn't show.
Outcome: MP wins $126.19.

Villain is MP

ok, so unless this guy is really tricky I think you can definitely discount him holding AA then

Yeah, you can discount this being AA.

pretty sure that we can discount QQ too. I think this would be a pretty standard 3-bet (in the OP's KK hand) with QQ against the original raise.

Don't know why Im bothering saying that, since I've already told you it was a set.

(I'm mostly being arrogant about this because I know you're wanting to show your snap call, and he had some ridiculous non-set hand, and then everyone will go haha ibft u r a fookin douchenozzle, and i'll be like ya, so? etc... but thats okay. Sometimes you have to fold the best hand)

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

saw flop|saw showdown

BB ($61.30)
UTG ($99.90)
MP ($109.60)
CO ($323.05)
Button ($105.95)
Hero ($197.20)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K, K.
1 fold, MP raises to $4, CO calls $4, 1 fold, Hero raises to $15, 1 fold, MP calls $11, CO calls $11.

Flop: ($46) 2, 8, 6 (3 players)
Hero bets $32, MP folds, CO raises to $288, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $110

Results in white below:
No showdown. CO wins $110.

No one will ever know. Villain claimed to have a set though.