Full Version: Obama On The War
Here's his new campaign ad:
QUOTE
Hi, my name is Barak Obama. While still a state congressman, I had the opportunity to make a firm decision about something I was given no intelligence briefing on, no military briefing, no state department briefing. I was also not included in the party discussions since my decision would have no bearing whatsoever on the decision since I was not a member on a federal level.
I chose No, war is bad.
THAT's why I should be president, because I can make the hard decisions, even when they are made with no facts, and don't matter.
My 4 year plan is to continue to vote based on my feelings without looking at the facts. And if you disagre, you are a rascist according to my wife.
My name is Barak Huessain Obama and I approve this message.
I chose No, war is bad.
THAT's why I should be president, because I can make the hard decisions, even when they are made with no facts, and don't matter.
My 4 year plan is to continue to vote based on my feelings without looking at the facts. And if you disagre, you are a rascist according to my wife.
My name is Barak Huessain Obama and I approve this message.
There's a junior state representative in Iowa that may have the answers on North Korea. Hurry let's ask him before he gets corrupted by Karl Rove.
Is that the intelligence that said Sadaam was building nuclear bombs? Seems that it wasn't all that intelligent.
Check out what even Dick Cheney said about Iraq in 1994. Even he said invading Iraq was a mistake at that time. Nothing appreciably changed in the end.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BEsZMvrq-I
Check out what even Dick Cheney said about Iraq in 1994. Even he said invading Iraq was a mistake at that time. Nothing appreciably changed in the end.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BEsZMvrq-I
The more things change, the more they remain the same.
Gulf of Tonkin incident..... meet weapons of mass destruction.
Communist domino theory...... meet the war on terror.
Once again we are in a country where we do not understand the language or the culture fighting a war of choice based on lies.
Calling this war stupid is an understatement. The death, blood and misery caused by our President is criminal. I wondered for a while why people are not protesting in record numbers against this travesty. Then I realized the answer was quite simple. THE DRAFT.
None of the younger members of this forum have to worry about a lottery that may send them across the globe to fight in a war whether they want to or not. Only when citizens from all walks of life and forced to drop their lives and pick up a weapon, will the outrage be heard loud and clear. An army officer was quoted as saying something to the effect of: America is not at war, the military is.
Trust me, when you see your birthday flash on the screen as number 2, everything hits home like a Mack truck.
By the way, when it was his time to patriotically serve his country, Bush used all of his family connections to stay the hell out of Nam.
Too bad he didn't use all of his abilities to keep the brave men and women out of harm's way in Iraq.
Gulf of Tonkin incident..... meet weapons of mass destruction.
Communist domino theory...... meet the war on terror.
Once again we are in a country where we do not understand the language or the culture fighting a war of choice based on lies.
Calling this war stupid is an understatement. The death, blood and misery caused by our President is criminal. I wondered for a while why people are not protesting in record numbers against this travesty. Then I realized the answer was quite simple. THE DRAFT.
None of the younger members of this forum have to worry about a lottery that may send them across the globe to fight in a war whether they want to or not. Only when citizens from all walks of life and forced to drop their lives and pick up a weapon, will the outrage be heard loud and clear. An army officer was quoted as saying something to the effect of: America is not at war, the military is.
Trust me, when you see your birthday flash on the screen as number 2, everything hits home like a Mack truck.
By the way, when it was his time to patriotically serve his country, Bush used all of his family connections to stay the hell out of Nam.
Too bad he didn't use all of his abilities to keep the brave men and women out of harm's way in Iraq.
QUOTE(Potomophobia @ Monday, February 25th, 2008, 10:54 AM) 
The more things change, the more they remain the same.
Some merit there
Gulf of Tonkin incident..... meet weapons of mass destruction.
Communist domino theory...... meet the war on terror.
I don't recall any attack on our country during the cold war years. If there had been things would have gotten really ugly...FAST. The war on terror is a direct result of an attack on our soil. That is a very large point you are choosing to ignore. In my opinion of course.
Once again we are in a country where we do not understand the language or the culture fighting a war of choice based on lies.
Yes...and that sucks. I would agree that if you are going to fight a war, you go to win. Police keeping missions will fail, see that whole domino theory.
That being said do you think this country has the balls for a real war? Our troops do for sure but how about all of you bleeding hearts? If you recall after 9/11 the entire country was in support even our donkey friends on the hill...but now they have forgotten that. Or better yet they were misled...I call BS they had the same info we all did.
You want to say it was mistake, we can discuss that, but don't try to point fingers now.
Calling this war stupid is an understatement. The death, blood and misery caused by our President is criminal.
No it was brought on by a mass of information and actions that make it reasonable. It is way to simple to blame it one man. I am not going to defend it, war is bad for business but it is not nearly that simple.
Again our friends on the other side were in complete agreement at the time.
I wondered for a while why people are not protesting in record numbers against this travesty. Then I realized the answer was quite simple. THE DRAFT.
None of the younger members of this forum have to worry about a lottery that may send them across the globe to fight in a war whether they want to or not. Only when citizens from all walks of life and forced to drop their lives and pick up a weapon, will the outrage be heard loud and clear.
An army officer was quoted as saying something to the effect of: America is not at war, the military is.
Yes agreed, part of the problem. Most of country forget the smoking wreckage of 9/11. You should go visit the site, see the hole that is left...if you haven't been there you don't understand the area and how tight it is and the sheer numbers of people that were there. Good Lord man you are from Jersey, have you really forgotten??
Trust me, when you see your birthday flash on the screen as number 2, everything hits home like a Mack truck.
No arguement here, this isn't about liking or being happy about it.
By the way, when it was his time to patriotically serve his country, Bush used all of his family connections to stay the hell out of Nam.
LOL him and most every guy that had the same connections...you are really going to sit and act like he is alone? Cmon now...you know better.
Too bad he didn't use all of his abilities to keep the brave men and women out of harm's way in Iraq.
Again I am not sure that was really an option...in hindsite maybe but at the time? It is never as simple at the time as when you look at it later...but you do have to be in charge to understand!!
Some merit there
Gulf of Tonkin incident..... meet weapons of mass destruction.
Communist domino theory...... meet the war on terror.
I don't recall any attack on our country during the cold war years. If there had been things would have gotten really ugly...FAST. The war on terror is a direct result of an attack on our soil. That is a very large point you are choosing to ignore. In my opinion of course.
Once again we are in a country where we do not understand the language or the culture fighting a war of choice based on lies.
Yes...and that sucks. I would agree that if you are going to fight a war, you go to win. Police keeping missions will fail, see that whole domino theory.
That being said do you think this country has the balls for a real war? Our troops do for sure but how about all of you bleeding hearts? If you recall after 9/11 the entire country was in support even our donkey friends on the hill...but now they have forgotten that. Or better yet they were misled...I call BS they had the same info we all did.
You want to say it was mistake, we can discuss that, but don't try to point fingers now.
Calling this war stupid is an understatement. The death, blood and misery caused by our President is criminal.
No it was brought on by a mass of information and actions that make it reasonable. It is way to simple to blame it one man. I am not going to defend it, war is bad for business but it is not nearly that simple.
Again our friends on the other side were in complete agreement at the time.
I wondered for a while why people are not protesting in record numbers against this travesty. Then I realized the answer was quite simple. THE DRAFT.
None of the younger members of this forum have to worry about a lottery that may send them across the globe to fight in a war whether they want to or not. Only when citizens from all walks of life and forced to drop their lives and pick up a weapon, will the outrage be heard loud and clear.
An army officer was quoted as saying something to the effect of: America is not at war, the military is.
Yes agreed, part of the problem. Most of country forget the smoking wreckage of 9/11. You should go visit the site, see the hole that is left...if you haven't been there you don't understand the area and how tight it is and the sheer numbers of people that were there. Good Lord man you are from Jersey, have you really forgotten??
Trust me, when you see your birthday flash on the screen as number 2, everything hits home like a Mack truck.
No arguement here, this isn't about liking or being happy about it.
By the way, when it was his time to patriotically serve his country, Bush used all of his family connections to stay the hell out of Nam.
LOL him and most every guy that had the same connections...you are really going to sit and act like he is alone? Cmon now...you know better.
Too bad he didn't use all of his abilities to keep the brave men and women out of harm's way in Iraq.
Again I am not sure that was really an option...in hindsite maybe but at the time? It is never as simple at the time as when you look at it later...but you do have to be in charge to understand!!
QUOTE(Nimue1995 @ Monday, February 25th, 2008, 9:46 AM)
Is that the intelligence that said Sadaam was building nuclear bombs? Seems that it wasn't all that intelligent.
Check out what even Dick Cheney said about Iraq in 1994. Even he said invading Iraq was a mistake at that time. Nothing appreciably changed in the end.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BEsZMvrq-I
Check out what even Dick Cheney said about Iraq in 1994. Even he said invading Iraq was a mistake at that time. Nothing appreciably changed in the end.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BEsZMvrq-I
You have blinders on. What we should be concentrating on is a scary problem, bad intelligence. The same intelligence that Bill Clinton, Al Gore, Hillary and leading Democrats and Republicans were spouting as gospel in the late ninety’s right up through 2003. And of course two months ago it was a report that Iran was not building a nuclear bomb, but Israel can go in and clean up that mess.
Starting in the 70’s with the Church Committee our intelligence agencies have been weakened to the point where we are today, in big trouble. Let’s hope we can totally turn this around. It would also be nice to eradicate some of the bureaucrats in the intelligence community.
And of course Sadaam totally overplayed his hand. As his daughter said “he received very bad advice”.
What Dick Cheney said in 1994 was totally irrelevant to what transpired in 2003.
akoff, you have to be joking on about half of the shit you put in a quote so i can't rip you apart.
What conditions in Iraq had changed from 1994 to 2001? Not a thing. You still had those factions in place and it was and is a quagmire just like he said. The only thing that changed was his mind.
QUOTE(checkymcfold @ Monday, February 25th, 2008, 12:30 PM)
akoff, you have to be joking on about half of the shit you put in a quote so i can't rip you apart.
??
QUOTE(akoff @ Monday, February 25th, 2008, 2:40 PM)
??
when you put replies inside the quote tags i can't respond directly. but about 2/3 of what you put in there is flat out wrong.
but quit associating 9/11 with iraq, basically. that's honestly retarded, and pretty much everyone knows that now. except retards.
Hey B.G.
Dont you love it when no one seems to get your point.
Dont you love it when no one seems to get your point.
QUOTE(checkymcfold @ Monday, February 25th, 2008, 12:42 PM)
but quit associating 9/11 with iraq, basically. that's honestly retarded, and pretty much everyone knows that now. except retards.
Iraq isn't an extension of the war on terrorism? The common belief was Iraq had WMD's correct? If they did and were in support of terror....what does that make it? Do you really believe they weren't in that position?
Whatever...I don't even like the war...certainly not a supporter of it. Would love to get out if possible ASAP but I don't know that is going to happen to matter who is in office.
LOL at retards...been accused of many things that is a first.
QUOTE(akoff @ Monday, February 25th, 2008, 3:00 PM)
Iraq isn't an extension of the war on terrorism? The common belief was Iraq had WMD's correct? If they did and were in support of terror....what does that make it? Do you really believe they weren't in that position?
Whatever...I don't even like the war...certainly not a supporter of it. Would love to get out if possible ASAP but I don't know that is going to happen to matter who is in office.
LOL at retards...been accused of many things that is a first.
Whatever...I don't even like the war...certainly not a supporter of it. Would love to get out if possible ASAP but I don't know that is going to happen to matter who is in office.
LOL at retards...been accused of many things that is a first.
i didn't call you a retard directly. i left it up to you--if you think 9/11 and iraq are the same battle, then you're retarded. if you don't, you might not be.
they didn't have WMDs. you are aware of this, yes? you can't use faulty intel (and there were abounding conflicting reports around, which are well-documented at this point) as an excuse for invading a foreign country. in so doing, you set such a ridiculous precedent that literally any country can invade literally any other country at any point in time just because they feel like it and can find one guy to say there's a threat. i'd condemn literally every senator who hasn't called iraq a colossal mistake, and i'm not really sure that entering a war on false pretenses is a mistake for which one should be forgiven, either.
war is serious business, probably the most serious business of all things human. you simply can't allow there to be ANY mistakes surrounding reasons for starting a war. anyone who makes a mistake in that regard deserves at least censure, and possibly prison time. i'm not joking. hundreds of thousands of people have died because of a "mistake" or "faulty intel." that can't be allowed to go unpunished just because the people that died were brown. hell, we hesitated for years before we joined the war against hitler, but we're not able to ensure that we're right about WMDs before invading iraq?
the hypocrisy of the united states govt and retards alike on this score is nearly unparalleled in history. can you imagine what sort of freakout bush, et al would have if north korea started doing the things we're doing? using false data to suggest that south korea was going to invade them, and using that as a reason to attack? the US does not play by its own rules in the world, and anyone who doesn't understand that the precedent set by our actions in iraq isn't extremely dangerous is a ****ing retard. i don't know how else to say it.
QUOTE(akoff @ Monday, February 25th, 2008, 3:00 PM)
Iraq isn't an extension of the war on terrorism?
No, never was. Iraq is not and was not a terrorist state. They were a country with a very bad leader and lots of internal conflicts. They were absolutely no threat to us, as we showed in Daddy's Gulf War.
Baby Bush's War had nothing to do with 9/11 or terrorism, except possibly to distract us from his failure to catch bin Laden.
(Al Queda is based in Afghanistan, with many of it's members being from Saudi Arabia.)
Sorry checky but I don't think anything is as str8 forward as you would like to make it. I don't like it not even a little. I have two men that work for me with kids that are there...it isn't good.
That being said it isn't that clear cut.
That being said it isn't that clear cut.
QUOTE(akoff @ Monday, February 25th, 2008, 3:25 PM)
Sorry checky but I don't think anything is as str8 forward as you would like to make it. I don't like it not even a little. I have two men that work for me with kids that are there...it isn't good.
That being said it isn't that clear cut.
That being said it isn't that clear cut.
don't accuse me of hurting the troops. they're dying too, and in danger because that is the situation of war. this is precisely why we can't EVER **** up when we're talking about starting a war. it doesn't just endanger brown people. it also endangers our neighbors, who i care just as much about as the innocent brown people across the sea.
QUOTE(checkymcfold @ Monday, February 25th, 2008, 1:29 PM)
don't accuse me of hurting the troops.
Fair enough, I didn't indend to do so...not even sure I did but sorry about that.
QUOTE(hblask @ Monday, February 25th, 2008, 1:22 PM)
No, never was. Iraq is not and was not a terrorist state.
(Al Queda is based in Afghanistan, with many of it's members being from Saudi Arabia.)
(Al Queda is based in Afghanistan, with many of it's members being from Saudi Arabia.)
Sorry I just don't believe that. I don't find it to be reasonable, maybe I am wrong but I doubt it.
QUOTE(akoff @ Monday, February 25th, 2008, 3:32 PM)
Fair enough, I didn't indend to do so...not even sure I did but sorry about that.
np. most of us that are against the war vehemently are used to being accused of that, sorry if i overreacted.
it's important that you understand, though, that american troops are PRECISELY the reason why we need to condemn the shit out of anyone involved in the planning of the iraq war. innocent people, brown, white, iraqi, or american, do not ever deserve to be put in harm's way by virtue of a mistake. by anyone. and we owe it to history to teach future generations that such mistakes do not go unpunished, whether committed by the US or any other country.
QUOTE(akoff @ Monday, February 25th, 2008, 3:34 PM)
Sorry I just don't believe that. I don't find it to be reasonable, maybe I am wrong but I doubt it.
what isn't reasonable about what henry said? it's all plainly true.
QUOTE(checkymcfold @ Monday, February 25th, 2008, 1:39 PM)
what isn't reasonable about what henry said? it's all plainly true.
Because there is to much made to the latest intelligence at the time. These areas are all so close...they support some common threads but will fight to the death over others...are you telling me these guys from Al Queda are just skipping past Iraq on the way to pakistan and Afghanistan?
Let me guess Iran is not involved either right? LOL of course they are. How and to what level?? I don't know nor does anyone else...it is a best guess. That is all it is for all of us.
Bottom line is the UN or anyone else can tell me there was nothing there...I don't buy it...nor do I buy that all the info was complete when we went in. It is a mess.
I have made a living from educated guess and feeling when the timing is right for a situation. It is my most imprtant talent and most profitable...and I am telling you we don't know the whole story and never will!!
I don't believe any of us will, so you take your best guess. I would be very happy to leave the entire middle east alone but that option was taken away long ago...so hang on for the ride.
QUOTE(akoff @ Monday, February 25th, 2008, 3:51 PM)
Because there is to much made to the latest intelligence at the time. These areas are all so close...they support some common threads but will fight to the death over others...are you telling me these guys from Al Queda are just skipping past Iraq on the way to pakistan and Afghanistan?
by that logic, we should invade every middle eastern country. terrorists do not just think "durrr kill america." they have a logic, if only internal and skewed, and it behooves us to try to understand it better to see if alleviating their base case against the US is worth it or not, or even possible. we haven't even considered this possibility. there are multiple ways to deal with any problem, and limiting ourselves to "seek out and find terrorism and annihilate all its forms" is obviously not working.
QUOTE
Let me guess Iran is not involved either right? LOL of course they are. How and to what level?? I don't know nor does anyone else...it is a best guess. That is all it is for all of us.
QUOTE
Bottom line is the UN or anyone else can tell me there was nothing there...I don't buy it...nor do I buy that all the info was complete when we went in. It is a mess.
you're hurting america. i'm not joking. if you can hold opinions that fly in the face of all facts and also believe that military action can be based on those opinions, you're hurting america.
QUOTE
I have made a living from educated guess and feeling when the timing is right for a situation. It is my most imprtant talent and most profitable...and I am telling you we don't know the whole story and never will!!
I don't believe any of us will, so you take your best guess. I would be very happy to leave the entire middle east alone but that option was taken away long ago...so hang on for the ride.
I don't believe any of us will, so you take your best guess. I would be very happy to leave the entire middle east alone but that option was taken away long ago...so hang on for the ride.
i hope you don't own a gun and are never in charge of people who own a gun. you're welcome to be crazy if it only affects you, but if military decisions are going to be based on your "educated guess[es]," i'm building a bunker in my backyard.
QUOTE(akoff @ Monday, February 25th, 2008, 3:51 PM)
Because there is to much made to the latest intelligence at the time. These areas are all so close...they support some common threads but will fight to the death over others...are you telling me these guys from Al Queda are just skipping past Iraq on the way to pakistan and Afghanistan? <br /><br />Let me guess Iran is not involved either right? LOL of course they are. How and to what level?? I don't know nor does anyone else...it is a best guess. That is all it is for all of us.<br /><br />Bottom line is the UN or anyone else can tell me there was nothing there...I don't buy it...nor do I buy that all the info was complete when we went in. It is a mess. <br /><br />I have made a living from educated guess and feeling when the timing is right for a situation. It is my most imprtant talent and most profitable...and I am telling you we don't know the whole story and never will!! <br /><br />I don't believe any of us will, so you take your best guess. I would be very happy to leave the entire middle east alone but that option was taken away long ago...so hang on for the ride.<br /><br /><br />
US intelligence reports that Al Queda met with Hussein prior to 9/11. They never came to any agreement except that they both hate the US. Iraq did not believe in the goals and methods of Al Queda, and Al Queda has no respect for Iraq. Having a common enemy was not enough, so they parted ways.
AQ took up residence in Afghanistan and Pakistan because they were the only countries that didn't kick them out. Nobody wanted to be a target for the US, and it was clear that that is where AQ was taking them. Iraq was especially afraid of this result, as we'd already attacked them once. Hussein knew it would be suicide to hook up with terrorists.
Since we attacked both Afghanistan and Iraq, there has been more communication between them, with Iraq now supporting Al Queda bases. Prior to our attacking Iraq, they had none. The was on Iraq has made us less secure.
This isn't really controversial, there is a huge trail of reports that demonstrate these facts. The mainstream media is doing a poor job of reporting them, but the story is consistent.
Well said! Seems like everything is happening to our family at once. Now my son-in-law has just been informed that he's going to be deployed to the Green Zone sometime between Sept & Nov. Just in time for Christmas, isn't that just jolly? But regardless he leaves behind my daughter and their 2 small children so they will be moving up here to be close to family while he's gone. It worries me tremendously because it's my opinion no one will be safe anywhere in Iraq including the Green Zone after the election. Only plus is that when he gets out he will only have a few months left in the army. This is his 3rd tour to Iraq. So yes I'm against this stupid war. For once hblask and I can agree on something.
Relax checky I certainly don't want to invade Iran..I swear!! Hell I don't want to invade anyone...
As far holding opinions that fly in the face of all facts...yes I do that sometimes and yes I will continue to do that. The reason why? Because in my life when something just doesn't add up there is always I repeat always somebody lying!!!!!
There are so many lies over there that you and I couldn't begin to understand it all clearly. We don't have the info needed. Nor will we ever have it. The info you you hang onto as the most accurate and most recent I don't put much stock in.... it is kind of like chasing our tail. I try to look at a situation and say "does this add up"
In this case it doesn't add up.
As far holding opinions that fly in the face of all facts...yes I do that sometimes and yes I will continue to do that. The reason why? Because in my life when something just doesn't add up there is always I repeat always somebody lying!!!!!
There are so many lies over there that you and I couldn't begin to understand it all clearly. We don't have the info needed. Nor will we ever have it. The info you you hang onto as the most accurate and most recent I don't put much stock in.... it is kind of like chasing our tail. I try to look at a situation and say "does this add up"
In this case it doesn't add up.
QUOTE(Nimue1995 @ Monday, February 25th, 2008, 4:15 PM)
Well said! Seems like everything is happening to our family at once. Now my son-in-law has just been informed that he's going to be deployed to the Green Zone sometime between Sept & Nov. Just in time for Christmas, isn't that just jolly? But regardless he leaves behind my daughter and their 2 small children so they will be moving up here to be close to family while he's gone. It worries me tremendously because it's my opinion no one will be safe anywhere in Iraq including the Green Zone after the election. Only plus is that when he gets out he will only have a few months left in the army. This is his 3rd tour to Iraq. So yes I'm against this stupid war. For once hblask and I can agree on something.
i don't think (or at least hope) this will be the case. i don't think that mccain, obama, or clinton would make things less safe over there than they are now, and i should hope that all three would do more to keep our troops safe while abroad.
best wishes to your son-in-law and the rest of your family. i'm sure things will be fine.
QUOTE(akoff @ Monday, February 25th, 2008, 4:18 PM)
Relax checky I certainly don't want to invade Iran..I swear!! Hell I don't want to invade anyone...
As far holding opinions that fly in the face of all facts...yes I do that sometimes and yes I will continue to do that. The reason why? Because in my life when something just doesn't add up there is always I repeat always somebody lying!!!!!
There are so many lies over there that you and I couldn't begin to understand it all clearly. We don't have the info needed. Nor will we ever have it. The info you you hang onto as the most accurate and most recent I don't put much stock in.... it is kind of like chasing our tail. I try to look at a situation and say "does this add up"
In this case it doesn't add up.
As far holding opinions that fly in the face of all facts...yes I do that sometimes and yes I will continue to do that. The reason why? Because in my life when something just doesn't add up there is always I repeat always somebody lying!!!!!
There are so many lies over there that you and I couldn't begin to understand it all clearly. We don't have the info needed. Nor will we ever have it. The info you you hang onto as the most accurate and most recent I don't put much stock in.... it is kind of like chasing our tail. I try to look at a situation and say "does this add up"
In this case it doesn't add up.
ok.
QUOTE(akoff @ Monday, February 25th, 2008, 2:51 PM)
Let me guess Iran is not involved either right? LOL of course they are. How and to what level?? I don't know nor does anyone else...it is a best guess. That is all it is for all of us.
Let me explain something to you that isn't well explained in the media you've been reading apparently. Iran is Shia as is most of Iraq. Al Quaida is Sunni. They hate each other as has been demonstrated by the civil war in Iraq. Therefore to say that Iran and Al Quaida would hook up is ridiculous. The only way they'd hook up is if we're dumb enough to invade Iran. Then like Iraq, I suspect they'll go ahead and let Al Quaida in. There was VERY LITTLE Al Quaida activity in Iraq UNTIL WE INVADED. Then it left an open door for them to come in because of the chaos we caused. Whoever was part of the decision to invade Iraq deserves to be charged with war crimes.
QUOTE(Nimue1995 @ Monday, February 25th, 2008, 1:33 PM)
What conditions in Iraq had changed from 1994 to 2001? Not a thing. You still had those factions in place and it was and is a quagmire just like he said. The only thing that changed was his mind.
According to the Intelligence (already addressed) a lot had changed. Ask the Clinton's, Al Gore, leaders in the Democratic and Republican party.
To AKOFF:
Most of country forget the smoking wreckage of 9/11. You should go visit the site, see the hole that is left...if you haven't been there you don't understand the area and how tight it is and the sheer numbers of people that were there. Good Lord man you are from Jersey, have you really forgotten??
In 2001, I was working for Chase Bank. The morning of Sept. 11, my wife dropped me off at the Edison train station. I took the NJT to Newark Penn, then the PATH to the WTC. I was walking up to the door of 1 Chase Plaza when the first plane hit. I was a couple of hundred yards away... I was one of the many thousands who walked out of Manhattan across the Brooklyn Bridge that day. I was lucky.
So no.... I haven't forgotten.
No it was brought on by a mass of information and actions that make it reasonable. It is way to simple to blame it one man.
All of the so called "information" was lies. Did you watch Colin Powell's speech to the UN? All of his "facts" were propagana manfuctured by the administration.
Yellow Cake..... ever heard of Valerie Plame?
Aluminum tubes.... proven before hand by experts to be of no use in a centrifuge.
Mobile nerve agent labs... they had cartoon drawings for evidence.... give me a break.
Eye witness testimony from inside Iraq. Do a little research on an agent named "curve ball."
All of these items of evidence had been debunked before the speech by experts. The administration did not care. They even went out of their way to crush any vocal opposition.
Obama was one of the few voices who spoke out against this insanity at a time when it was very unpopular to do so. We need a leader who has the moral courage to do what is right at exactly those critical times.
Most of country forget the smoking wreckage of 9/11. You should go visit the site, see the hole that is left...if you haven't been there you don't understand the area and how tight it is and the sheer numbers of people that were there. Good Lord man you are from Jersey, have you really forgotten??
In 2001, I was working for Chase Bank. The morning of Sept. 11, my wife dropped me off at the Edison train station. I took the NJT to Newark Penn, then the PATH to the WTC. I was walking up to the door of 1 Chase Plaza when the first plane hit. I was a couple of hundred yards away... I was one of the many thousands who walked out of Manhattan across the Brooklyn Bridge that day. I was lucky.
So no.... I haven't forgotten.
No it was brought on by a mass of information and actions that make it reasonable. It is way to simple to blame it one man.
All of the so called "information" was lies. Did you watch Colin Powell's speech to the UN? All of his "facts" were propagana manfuctured by the administration.
Yellow Cake..... ever heard of Valerie Plame?
Aluminum tubes.... proven before hand by experts to be of no use in a centrifuge.
Mobile nerve agent labs... they had cartoon drawings for evidence.... give me a break.
Eye witness testimony from inside Iraq. Do a little research on an agent named "curve ball."
All of these items of evidence had been debunked before the speech by experts. The administration did not care. They even went out of their way to crush any vocal opposition.
Obama was one of the few voices who spoke out against this insanity at a time when it was very unpopular to do so. We need a leader who has the moral courage to do what is right at exactly those critical times.
QUOTE(Potomophobia @ Monday, February 25th, 2008, 2:48 PM)
To AKOFF:
Most of country forget the smoking wreckage of 9/11. You should go visit the site, see the hole that is left...if you haven't been there you don't understand the area and how tight it is and the sheer numbers of people that were there. Good Lord man you are from Jersey, have you really forgotten??
In 2001, I was working for Chase Bank. The morning of Sept. 11, my wife dropped me off at the Edison train station. I took the NJT to Newark Penn, then the PATH to the WTC. I was walking up to the door of 1 Chase Plaza when the first plane hit. I was a couple of hundred yards away... I was one of the many thousands who walked out of Manhattan across the Brooklyn Bridge that day. I was lucky.
So no.... I haven't forgotten.
Most of country forget the smoking wreckage of 9/11. You should go visit the site, see the hole that is left...if you haven't been there you don't understand the area and how tight it is and the sheer numbers of people that were there. Good Lord man you are from Jersey, have you really forgotten??
In 2001, I was working for Chase Bank. The morning of Sept. 11, my wife dropped me off at the Edison train station. I took the NJT to Newark Penn, then the PATH to the WTC. I was walking up to the door of 1 Chase Plaza when the first plane hit. I was a couple of hundred yards away... I was one of the many thousands who walked out of Manhattan across the Brooklyn Bridge that day. I was lucky.
So no.... I haven't forgotten.
I can only imagine. I had several friends who weren't in work yet...just lucky I guess. Also with me being communications I had men standing within blocks of ground zero several days after the attack. I had to get to get background checks on them to through tunnel to be allowed in the city...we installed temp sites on street corners, we shot signal off of rooftops in jersey pointed accross the river to support coverage.
I guess I don't like being attacked and I am a firm believer that you must make the penalty much higher then anyone is willing to pay to try again!!
My concern is that our nation doesn't have the guts to defend ourselves or even keep our position as the only power left in the world. This country was built on guts and capitalism, I don't see enough of either.
If we have forgotten 9/11 that fast...well whatever.
QUOTE(akoff @ Monday, February 25th, 2008, 7:36 PM)
I guess I don't like being attacked and I am a firm believer that you must make the penalty much higher then anyone is willing to pay to try again!!
so we should kill petty thieves, kill every friend and neighbor of every terrorist, and shoot the dog of everyone who looks at us funny?
9/11 was a terrible, terrible thing. but did it annihilate our ability to think logically? i hope not.
QUOTE(akoff @ Monday, February 25th, 2008, 5:36 PM)
I can only imagine. I had several friends who weren't in work yet...just lucky I guess. Also with me being communications I had men standing within blocks of ground zero several days after the attack. I had to get to get background checks on them to through tunnel to be allowed in the city...we installed temp sites on street corners, we shot signal off of rooftops in jersey pointed accross the river to support coverage.
I guess I don't like being attacked and I am a firm believer that you must make the penalty much higher then anyone is willing to pay to try again!!
My concern is that our nation doesn't have the guts to defend ourselves or even keep our position as the only power left in the world. This country was built on guts and capitalism, I don't see enough of either.
If we have forgotten 9/11 that fast...well whatever.
I guess I don't like being attacked and I am a firm believer that you must make the penalty much higher then anyone is willing to pay to try again!!
My concern is that our nation doesn't have the guts to defend ourselves or even keep our position as the only power left in the world. This country was built on guts and capitalism, I don't see enough of either.
If we have forgotten 9/11 that fast...well whatever.
It's all fine and dandy to believe your statement in bold, but come to the realization that invading Iraq had NOTHING to do with retaliation for 9/11. That'd be like saying giving a swirlie to the 2nd grade bully is your payback for getting your lunch money taken from you every day in high school....or something to that effect.
QUOTE(checkymcfold @ Monday, February 25th, 2008, 5:47 PM)
so we should kill petty thieves, kill every friend and neighbor of every terrorist, and shoot the dog of everyone who looks at us funny?
LOL
9/11 was a terrible, terrible thing. but did it annihilate our ability to think logically? i hope not.
LOL
9/11 was a terrible, terrible thing. but did it annihilate our ability to think logically? i hope not.
As far as 9/11 goes I don't claim to have the solution but to sit back and reason with them isn't it. All I have said here is that it isn't as simple as you make it out to be...I think you need to consider the approach of leave them alone as much as possible and then hit them back 10 or 20 or 30 times harder then they hit when first...yea i think there is some logic there!!
Remember checky I am all for minding our own business as long as they stay away from us!!
The whole middle east From Syria down through SA is a bunch of thugs that have been killing themselves forever and won't stop until they are all dead or the world as we know ends....and yes Iraq is tied into AQ which is tied to Iran which is tied to Isreal....and so this thing is 5k years old and all you want to talk about it the last 5 or 10 or 30 years...it is so much deeper then that!!
Flame on all!!
QUOTE(akoff @ Monday, February 25th, 2008, 7:59 PM)
As far as 9/11 goes I don't claim to have the solution but to sit back and reason with them isn't it. All I have said here is that it isn't as simple as you make it out to be...I think you need to consider the approach of leave them alone as much as possible and then hit them back 10 or 20 or 30 times harder then they hit when first...yea i think there is some logic there!!
Remember checky I am all for minding our own business as long as they stay away from us!!
The whole middle east From Syria down through SA is a bunch of thugs that have been killing themselves forever and won't stop until they are all dead or the world as we know ends....and yes Iraq is tied into AQ which is tied to Iran which is tied to Isreal....and so this thing is 5k years old and all you want to talk about it the last 5 or 10 or 30 years...it is so much deeper then that!!
Flame on all!!
Remember checky I am all for minding our own business as long as they stay away from us!!
The whole middle east From Syria down through SA is a bunch of thugs that have been killing themselves forever and won't stop until they are all dead or the world as we know ends....and yes Iraq is tied into AQ which is tied to Iran which is tied to Isreal....and so this thing is 5k years old and all you want to talk about it the last 5 or 10 or 30 years...it is so much deeper then that!!
Flame on all!!
this is all horribly ignorant and mildly racist.
if you believe in minding our own business as long as "they" stay away from us, then you should also believe in not condemning entire countries when you obviously know literally nothing about them or their history. or else, the world will forever be at war.
edit: i'm entirely serious that mentalities like yours are literally destroying america. embracing ignorance and simplistic interpretations of horribly complex issues is making it a hell of a lot easier for al q'aeda to recruit new members. you're helping the terrorists by engendering what they hate. i don't like saying things that sound this inflammatory, but this is absolutely true, and it's tough to mince words in saying it, especially when the counterargument is so mindblowingly stupid and counterproductive that it makes me laugh and cry at the same time.
QUOTE(akoff @ Monday, February 25th, 2008, 5:59 PM)
As far as 9/11 goes I don't claim to have the solution but to sit back and reason with them isn't it. All I have said here is that it isn't as simple as you make it out to be...I think you need to consider the approach of leave them alone as much as possible and then hit them back 10 or 20 or 30 times harder then they hit when first...yea i think there is some logic there!!
Remember checky I am all for minding our own business as long as they stay away from us!!
The whole middle east From Syria down through SA is a bunch of thugs that have been killing themselves forever and won't stop until they are all dead or the world as we know ends....and yes Iraq is tied into AQ which is tied to Iran which is tied to Isreal....and so this thing is 5k years old and all you want to talk about it the last 5 or 10 or 30 years...it is so much deeper then that!!
Flame on all!!
Remember checky I am all for minding our own business as long as they stay away from us!!
The whole middle east From Syria down through SA is a bunch of thugs that have been killing themselves forever and won't stop until they are all dead or the world as we know ends....and yes Iraq is tied into AQ which is tied to Iran which is tied to Isreal....and so this thing is 5k years old and all you want to talk about it the last 5 or 10 or 30 years...it is so much deeper then that!!
Flame on all!!
Paging Oliver Stone...
QUOTE(checkymcfold @ Monday, February 25th, 2008, 6:06 PM)
this is all horribly ignorant and mildly racist.
if you believe in minding our own business as long as "they" stay away from us, then you should also believe in not condemning entire countries when you obviously know literally nothing about them or their history. or else, the world will forever be at war.
edit: i'm entirely serious that mentalities like yours are literally destroying america. embracing ignorance and simplistic interpretations of horribly complex issues is making it a hell of a lot easier for al q'aeda to recruit new members. you're helping the terrorists by engendering what they hate. i don't like saying things that sound this inflammatory, but this is absolutely true, and it's tough to mince words in saying it, especially when the counterargument is so mindblowingly stupid and counterproductive that it makes me laugh and cry at the same time.
if you believe in minding our own business as long as "they" stay away from us, then you should also believe in not condemning entire countries when you obviously know literally nothing about them or their history. or else, the world will forever be at war.
edit: i'm entirely serious that mentalities like yours are literally destroying america. embracing ignorance and simplistic interpretations of horribly complex issues is making it a hell of a lot easier for al q'aeda to recruit new members. you're helping the terrorists by engendering what they hate. i don't like saying things that sound this inflammatory, but this is absolutely true, and it's tough to mince words in saying it, especially when the counterargument is so mindblowingly stupid and counterproductive that it makes me laugh and cry at the same time.
Why would that be racist? My God man open your eyes. Look at the history you chose to ignore. It is the truth...you can't even begin argue with it and have anything to back you up!
Yes i believe in staying away from "them" just as I believe in staying away from from common criminals and drug dealers...LOL yes you sir are correct!!
Destroying America....LOL LOL yea that it is. make a living, provide jobs to about 100 people, pay several of them over 120k per year, give full bennies inclding profit sharing and 401k, health and diability, teach my kids to work instead of letting someone else do it...LOL my 9 year old doesn't know I am member of my CC cause he can't keep his mouth shut, pay well into 6 figures every year in taxes to help support some of our boneheads and i am the problem cause I don't want some bastard taking down our buildings, killing our people and making our people run scared!!!
LOL and i am the problem. Without guys like me you wouldn't have a anything!!
ok I am done my rant now...Flame on!!
QUOTE(akoff @ Monday, February 25th, 2008, 8:52 PM)
Why would that be racist? My God man open your eyes. Look at the history you chose to ignore. It is the truth...you can't even begin argue with it and have anything to back you up!
Yes i believe in staying away from "them" just as I believe in staying away from from common criminals and drug dealers...LOL yes you sir are correct!!
Destroying America....LOL LOL yea that it is. make a living, provide jobs to about 100 people, pay several of them over 120k per year, give full bennies inclding profit sharing and 401k, health and diability, teach my kids to work instead of letting someone else do it...LOL my 9 year old doesn't know I am member of my CC cause he can't keep his mouth shut, pay well into 6 figures every year in taxes to help support some of our boneheads and i am the problem cause I don't want some bastard taking down our buildings, killing our people and making our people run scared!!!
LOL and i am the problem. Without guys like me you wouldn't have a anything!!
ok I am done my rant now...Flame on!!
Yes i believe in staying away from "them" just as I believe in staying away from from common criminals and drug dealers...LOL yes you sir are correct!!
Destroying America....LOL LOL yea that it is. make a living, provide jobs to about 100 people, pay several of them over 120k per year, give full bennies inclding profit sharing and 401k, health and diability, teach my kids to work instead of letting someone else do it...LOL my 9 year old doesn't know I am member of my CC cause he can't keep his mouth shut, pay well into 6 figures every year in taxes to help support some of our boneheads and i am the problem cause I don't want some bastard taking down our buildings, killing our people and making our people run scared!!!
LOL and i am the problem. Without guys like me you wouldn't have a anything!!
ok I am done my rant now...Flame on!!
i didn't say YOU were destroying america. i said your mentality was. because it is.
you're right, if you close your eyes and let the bombers loose all the world's problems will just magically turn into fairy dream dust, and all the arabs will turn white and their turbans will turn into popped collars. life, the world, and politics are all simple.
if you think you have even the faintest idea about the history of the middle east, i find you quite adorable. in that laugh/cry sort of way.
seriously, though. you should read a book about pluralism. it's called a new religious america, by diana eck. hopefully it will help you realize that muslims are, by and large, no different from you.
All I can say is that I'm so happy that I've found a political issue on which I agree with Checky 100% 
QUOTE(hblask @ Monday, February 25th, 2008, 9:06 PM)
All I can say is that I'm so happy that I've found a political issue on which I agree with Checky 100%
<3
QUOTE(checkymcfold @ Monday, February 25th, 2008, 7:01 PM)
you're right, if you close your eyes and let the bombers loose all the world's problems will just magically turn into fairy dream dust, and all the arabs will turn white and their turbans will turn into popped collars. life, the world, and politics are all simple.
if you think you have even the faintest idea about the history of the middle east, i find you quite adorable. in that laugh/cry sort of way.
seriously, though. you should read a book about pluralism. it's called a new religious america, by diana eck. hopefully it will help you realize that muslims are, by and large, no different from you.
if you think you have even the faintest idea about the history of the middle east, i find you quite adorable. in that laugh/cry sort of way.
seriously, though. you should read a book about pluralism. it's called a new religious america, by diana eck. hopefully it will help you realize that muslims are, by and large, no different from you.
I never said turn lose the bombers. I just said you have to defend you land to a huge multiplier...nothing else. I would be more then willing to never get involved again but I realize that isn't possible. You can still make anyone pay a price for coming to your home...it just isn't allowed.
i do have an idea about the history of the middle east. It has been the center of unrest for all of recored history...but yea Bush, Clinton or any of our boneheads are now gonna step in a fix it!! but i am the one that is clueless.
I have no beef with muslims as a religion. hey if it works for youknock yourself out, just stop killing each other and however many inocent bystanders in the name what ever God you choose to worship...and be advised if you do it here it is going to be costly to you.
the fact of the matter is hate me, you or the entire US and or the free and modern world but stay the hell away from our land!!
That is not unreasonable.
You can't negotiate with people like this...that is time tested and well recorded all through history.
QUOTE(akoff @ Monday, February 25th, 2008, 9:14 PM)
i do have an idea about the history of the middle east.
no, you don't.
QUOTE
I have no beef with muslims as a religion. hey if it works for youknock yourself out, just stop killing each other and however many inocent bystanders in the name what ever God you choose to worship...and be advised if you do it here it is going to be costly to you.
QUOTE
the fact of the matter is hate me, you or the entire US and or the free and modern world but stay the hell away from our land!!
i would rather that no one hate us, but maybe that's just me.
QUOTE
You can't negotiate with people like this...that is time tested and well recorded all through history.
i will give you a nickel for every example of this principle "that is time tested (sic) and well recorded all through (sic) history." hint: i'm tricking you, be careful.
QUOTE(checkymcfold @ Monday, February 25th, 2008, 7:20 PM)
no, you don't.
you're right. only muslims do this. it has nothing to do with socioeconomic status, foreign policy, maturity of a religion in historical terms, or anything else. christians have never pulled this shit, ever.
they have and was crap then as well. lucky for all of us those days ended.
i would rather that no one hate us, but maybe that's just me.
agreed but that isn't going to happen
i will give you a nickel for every example of this principle "that is time tested (sic) and well recorded all through (sic) history."
tell you what make it a 100 per I am willing to get you a post that links to all the times in history that poeple wasted their time trying to deal with a fanatical / ruthless group and or leader to no worthwhile conclusion
you're right. only muslims do this. it has nothing to do with socioeconomic status, foreign policy, maturity of a religion in historical terms, or anything else. christians have never pulled this shit, ever.
they have and was crap then as well. lucky for all of us those days ended.
i would rather that no one hate us, but maybe that's just me.
agreed but that isn't going to happen
i will give you a nickel for every example of this principle "that is time tested (sic) and well recorded all through (sic) history."
tell you what make it a 100 per I am willing to get you a post that links to all the times in history that poeple wasted their time trying to deal with a fanatical / ruthless group and or leader to no worthwhile conclusion
i keep warning you that i'm tricking you, and this time i'll be more explicit. maybe losing money will make you understand the point.
i will pay you 100 dollars for each instance that is "time-tested throughout history" in which people "like them" (whatever this means) are obviously impossible to deal with no matter what. if you can come up with none, or i can debunk you, you ship me 100. deal?
i will pay you 100 dollars for each instance that is "time-tested throughout history" in which people "like them" (whatever this means) are obviously impossible to deal with no matter what. if you can come up with none, or i can debunk you, you ship me 100. deal?
QUOTE(checkymcfold @ Monday, February 25th, 2008, 7:34 PM)
i keep warning you that i'm tricking you, and this time i'll be more explicit. maybe losing money will make you understand the point.
i will pay you 100 dollars for each instance that is "time-tested throughout history" in which people "like them" (whatever this means) are obviously impossible to deal with no matter what. if you can come up with none, or i can debunk you, you ship me 100. deal?
i will pay you 100 dollars for each instance that is "time-tested throughout history" in which people "like them" (whatever this means) are obviously impossible to deal with no matter what. if you can come up with none, or i can debunk you, you ship me 100. deal?
LOL you are a smart guy I won't question you there...couple things you never said a bet. you said i will GIVE you a nickel...not sure where you are going but i won't get caught in that one!!
i won't get into a play on words with you and to be honest I should know better then to waste my time arguing while having a drink with guy who is much better writer...but hell I have enjoyed it.
Are you really gong to tell me that historically you can negotiate with a tyrant, terrorist, zealot whatever and do so sucessfully? if so please move forward with it. i have all night!
QUOTE(akoff @ Monday, February 25th, 2008, 9:41 PM)
LOL you are a smart guy I won't question you there...couple things you never said a bet. you said i will GIVE you a nickel...not sure where you are going but i won't get caught in that one!!
i won't get into a play on words with you and to be honest I should know better then to waste my time arguing while having a drink with guy who is much better writer...but hell I have enjoyed it.
Are you really gong to tell me that historically you can negotiate with a tyrant, terrorist, zealot whatever and do so sucessfully? if so please move forward with it. i have all night!
i won't get into a play on words with you and to be honest I should know better then to waste my time arguing while having a drink with guy who is much better writer...but hell I have enjoyed it.
Are you really gong to tell me that historically you can negotiate with a tyrant, terrorist, zealot whatever and do so sucessfully? if so please move forward with it. i have all night!
ok. what i'm saying is that those words are at worst utterly vapid, and at best entirely unhelpful in terms of solving the world's problems. that is what i meant all along in terms of oversimplifying complicated situations and how it hurts america. if you're not authentically approaching the situations that need addressing and just simplifying them down into stupid dichotomies of "us/them," "freedom-ers/terrorists," "christians/muslims," you are making the conflict worse, and in a very concrete way. by reinforcing false dichotomies, you are engendering hatred, on one side or the other. that makes things worse, no matter which side is right and which side is wrong. and thus, you are, no matter how much you say otherwise, hurting america.
if america takes actions that make radical islamic people hate us more, we are cutting off our nose to spite our face. that's ****ing stupid, and we should be smarter than that. going into iraq just made things worse on precisely this score.
QUOTE(checkymcfold @ Monday, February 25th, 2008, 2:20 PM)
i don't think (or at least hope) this will be the case. i don't think that mccain, obama, or clinton would make things less safe over there than they are now, and i should hope that all three would do more to keep our troops safe while abroad.
best wishes to your son-in-law and the rest of your family. i'm sure things will be fine.
best wishes to your son-in-law and the rest of your family. i'm sure things will be fine.
Unfortunatly I have to dissagree with you there checky. I'm pro Obama and anti-republican but I think if Obama or Clinton gets elected and decides to keep their promise of withdrawing all troops and getting everyone out within a year I think it will be a big mistake and hurt the ones that are still there. I think we have done so much damage over there that we need to stay there as long as it takes to be able to pull everyone out SAFELY whether it takes a year or 10. The main thing we need to do is concentrate on keeping the troops safe. (well as safe as you can be during a war). I also think that if we just start pulling troops it is going to give terrorist more confidence to attack us.
QUOTE(quadaces @ Monday, February 25th, 2008, 8:23 PM)
Unfortunatly I have to dissagree with you there checky. I'm pro Obama and anti-republican but I think if Obama or Clinton gets elected and decides to keep their promise of withdrawing all troops and getting everyone out within a year I think it will be a big mistake and hurt the ones that are still there. I think we have done so much damage over there that we need to stay there as long as it takes to be able to pull everyone out SAFELY whether it takes a year or 10. The main thing we need to do is concentrate on keeping the troops safe. (well as safe as you can be during a war). I also think that if we just start pulling troops it is going to give terrorist more confidence to attack us.
Call me crazy, but the safest place they can be is home. I will, again, ask the question that I've yet to see get answered by those who feel staying for 5, 10, 100 years until "we win" is the way to go. What is your definition of winning??
Obama Press release 2011:
QUOTE
My fellow Americans, first thank you for taking the time away from filling out your Healthcare for Everyone Levels Life forms. I realize some of the questions are intrusive, but we really need to know all your hobbies and eating habits to best provide our lawyers with the ammunition to sue all companies that have made you ill.
Now as for Iraq, I can only say the mass deaths and upheaval are a terrible thing. But I still stand behind our pulling the troops out when I did. I lay the blame for the hundreds of thousands of dead squarely on George Bush's hands, since he got us into the war and was unable to solve the war before I took office. My decision to remove the troops in the manner I did was based solely on my desire to save their lives. The fact that so many other lives are now being destroyed is not my fault, because it was not my intention. And I will go on the record of saying I am against any war with Iran, even though they have taken control of the oil fields for much needed energy sources until the nuclear programs comes fully online next year. I have met and talked with President Mockmujinihide and he has reassured me that he will give the oil back when he is done.
Now please remember that we are negotiating with OPEC to please reduce the price of oil to a more reasonable $150 a barrel. Hopefully Japan, France and Spain will find much needed oil in their own countries before their economies completely collapse. I do not see how this will have any effect on the US economy, since it is already completely in a depression. I will probably have to raise taxes on the rich even more, since 50% marginal tax rate still leaves them with more money then most of the inner city poor that currently cannot find jobs because of the manufacturing crisis. But again, the blame falls squarely on George Bush's shoulders for not leaving a robust economy for me to tax the heck out of the upper 50% of wage earners.
Vice President Clintons resignation is further proof that our taxing of the rich is having the desired effects. She will be filing bankruptcy due to her unfortunate pre-nup she signed by accident.
I am now nominating my wife as Vice President, and hope congress will not block this nomination just because she is black. If they do she will be proud of this country again, for the second time in her adult life.
Now back to American Idol.
Now as for Iraq, I can only say the mass deaths and upheaval are a terrible thing. But I still stand behind our pulling the troops out when I did. I lay the blame for the hundreds of thousands of dead squarely on George Bush's hands, since he got us into the war and was unable to solve the war before I took office. My decision to remove the troops in the manner I did was based solely on my desire to save their lives. The fact that so many other lives are now being destroyed is not my fault, because it was not my intention. And I will go on the record of saying I am against any war with Iran, even though they have taken control of the oil fields for much needed energy sources until the nuclear programs comes fully online next year. I have met and talked with President Mockmujinihide and he has reassured me that he will give the oil back when he is done.
Now please remember that we are negotiating with OPEC to please reduce the price of oil to a more reasonable $150 a barrel. Hopefully Japan, France and Spain will find much needed oil in their own countries before their economies completely collapse. I do not see how this will have any effect on the US economy, since it is already completely in a depression. I will probably have to raise taxes on the rich even more, since 50% marginal tax rate still leaves them with more money then most of the inner city poor that currently cannot find jobs because of the manufacturing crisis. But again, the blame falls squarely on George Bush's shoulders for not leaving a robust economy for me to tax the heck out of the upper 50% of wage earners.
Vice President Clintons resignation is further proof that our taxing of the rich is having the desired effects. She will be filing bankruptcy due to her unfortunate pre-nup she signed by accident.
I am now nominating my wife as Vice President, and hope congress will not block this nomination just because she is black. If they do she will be proud of this country again, for the second time in her adult life.
Now back to American Idol.
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