...for Marion and Banks. What in the name of Holy God is going on? Initial reaction I love it, but what if he's rejuvenated for one last run?

http://sports.yahoo.com/;_ylt=AuCkZa9t4s3qlR_Gzw6nf.i8vLYF

I'm not really sure what the Suns are going for here. Shaq surely won't be able to run with the Suns offense. Only thing I can think of is if they're getting him to try and strengthen their interior defense, even though I don't really see Shaq making a big difference.

Crazy

I think this is a horrible trade.

If they win the title I guess I'll eat those words, but I don't think they will win either way. They'd have a better chance with Marion anyway. And, you'd be better off with Marion rather than Shaq in the offseason.


Lucky for phx they haven't said yes yet.

Terrible move by the Suns. Shaq won't fit Pheonix.

laugh my ass off at this trade. Gonan be fun to watch phoenix be a half court team. Shaq is so washed up. Im still in shock though. Cant wait to see kobe dunk on his ass in the playoffs

Suns pros
-Interior presence
-Moves Amare to natural position at the 4
-Rebounding
*It doesn't matter if he can run or not the Suns prolly already would have taken a shot before he reaches half court. The Suns did this w/ Kurt Thomas.
-Being a contender Shaq may be rejuvenated and motivated.
-Upgrade inside/out gain, Shaq's assists numbers should be up w/ the suns shooters. (see wilt chamberlain and kareem @ the end of their careers)

Suns cons
-Likely to have a career threating injury
-Might be lazy
-Lose a versatile defender who was able to defend virtually any position.
-Lose a fast breaker
-Lose out on potentially better deals for Marion



Only time will tell.

my 2 cents....

Suns cons:
Shaq and Amare have damn near the SAME GAME. two guys clogging the middle is completely redundant.. See Curry and Randolph in New York if you don't understand this point.

PHX's offense revolves around the pick and roll between Nash/Amare and Nash/Marion. Shaq doesn't contribute to this much, especially if he is no longer commanding a double-team at all times.

Shaq's contract is more ridiculous than Marions. 2 years after this year. Phx is one of the more notorious anti-luxury tax teams in this league. Unless there is a verbal agreement between Shaq and Phx for Shaq to retire prematurely and come off the books, this makes no sense. Even with Miami kicking in salary, it still counts against the tax.

Marion has been very healthy throughout his career. Shaq... not so much... You'll get 75-82 from Marion. Shaq could miss long stretches.

Suns Pros:
Shaq has the talents and charisma to be a great mentor for Amare.

Shaq will command attention and will free up Phx shooters in a HALF COURT OFFENSE.

This could be the first part that triggers a deal where Amare gets shipped out to Chicago or Portland, or another team with a ton of expiring contracts/young talent/draft picks. Of course, Phx usually just sells their draft picks to Portland, so this isn't overly likely either. Moving Amare will help this make more sense. If they sent him to Portland for a package including Jarret Jack or Sergio Rodreiguz + Travis Outlaw / Martell Webster / Channing Frye / James Jones + Lafrentz's contract, It would help the trade make a bit more sense in the long term. But that would *really* be gutting that team and completely blowing up chemistry for the stretch run.. For Chicago, it's be Tyrus Thomas + Nocioni + PJ's contract or something wacky like that with Duhon tossed into the mix.

Shaq will sell some tickets, but then again, they sell out already, right?

Shaq could be completely rejuvenated with someone as skilled as Nash getting the ball in to him. The Big Guy could really get some pep in his step with a ton of easy baskets and being in the thick of a playoff race.

Seriously, this news caught me completely off guard.. I couldn't pick a weirder fit for Shaq than Phoenix. Even Portland and Dallas would be able to adapt to his talents easier without totally scrapping their offensive gameplan. This has been a WILD week in the NBA. I'm excited.

Finally one final point: Could the Suns have managed to do ANY WORSE in getting value for Marion? Even ringing Isiah Thomas's phone could have yielded a more attractive package. This is just nuts... insanity.. Please tell me there is a 3rd team involved.. But if there was, why would Shaq need to go to Phx for the physical?

This thing makes no sense.

Steve Kerr should be fired immediately.

You see how you just contradicted yourself right?

Shaq and Amare have no where near the same game. Amare is much more of a slasher than a back to the basket guy, he gets most of his points of pick and rolls and aggressive play going toward the basket. He can post up with his back to the basket, but it's not the best part of his game.

Shaq will do fine setting picks, he will probably do it more off the ball on the weak side to free up three point shooters.

seems insane but it wont be borong and in the end thats all i care about

yes.....yesssss......YESSSSSS.....YEEEEEESSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!


that accurately describes my reaction to this trade.

I think Steve Kerr is a smart guy and respect his basketball knowledge, so he probably sees something that I don't.

I think Marion is the most overrated player in the NBA and even I think they didn't get value for him.

the suns will add excitement, gain post presence, and dump a guy who was a chemistry killer (allegedly). I think Marion's malcontentedness caused this trade as much as anything.

I dont think Marion is that overrated and I do think he fits great at PF in the East alongside Wade.

The heat are just gonna let him go for cap space in the offseason. I think the market may have been very small and low for Marion. That or Kerr knows something that no one else does about Shaq. I doubt Marion plays the 4. I dont really know what the Heat are doing anyways, if you don't want Marion for the future might as well tank and get a solid pick. Maybe they'll ship Marion for pick(s) and clear the space this season.

They both do a majority of their work in the paint and aren't a threat from >12 ft out. I'm not seeing how I'm contradicting myself, unless you are pointing out that the Suns already have a big man who fits in perfectly with their uptempo offense, in which case I'm agreeing with you.

This whole thing makes about as much sense as putting Jason Kidd in the Triangle. Period.
Bottom line: The Suns did *not* get better defensively. They did *not* get better offensively. They got *older*. And they made their precious cap situation *worse*. They didn't exactly get healthier, either.

lol CaneBrain. Merryf*ckingXmas.

I bet you never had the balls to put something this outlandish in the Trade Machine, did you?

You gotta be on cloud 9 today, congrats!

ridiculous trade.. but it should help the Suns in the playoffs when they need a big man. That is if Shaq isn't out for the season by then.

How you been doing since Shaq left?

What does how the Lakers have done since Shaq left have to with how washed up he is now?

He wasnt when he left LA, but he sure is now.

Settle down, Miss.

The point I was making is that basking in the downside of someone's career expressly because they left your team and it's selfish star guard is silly and petty when the player meant so much to that team.

Look here, Ma'am, I agree with you.

But having said that, Fuck Shaq's old worthless ass.

Hug me.

Lets hug it out, bitch.

Amare can certainly shoot from outside 12 feet.

Also, I was walking back from class just now and started thinking about this trade and just started laughing my ass off. I can't get over it.

I'll bet that was a site to see. You get any funny looks?

I did and they all came up to me and said "Kevin, what is so damn funny?"

I replied, "Shaq got traded to the Suns for Marion!"

They replied, "Shit dude, that IS funny!"

And they laughed their jolly asses back home.

Amare has a solid mid range face up jumper, something Shaq doesn't have.

Thats what it all truly comes down to.. This trade is absurd.

They got Shaq to battle the bigs in the West in the playoffs... Fine.

Shaq is slowing down Duncan? No. Can you keep a straight face while imagining Shaq guarding Dirk?

Ok, fine, you say.. What about how he's going to shut down Andrew Bynum? Ok, let's pretend for a second, if heatlhy, he slows down Bynum.. Who's guarding Kobe now? Hill? Diaw? Barbosa? Seriously? Playoffs is all about defense and the half-court game. The Suns lose more in BOTH areas lby losing Marion then they could ever hope to gain with Shaq. It's not.. even... close..

The teams in the playoffs w/ low post games that Shaq can actually disrupt (Houston, LA) they were already beating anyways. This is just horrid, no matter how you want to analyze it.

He turns 36 next month.

I never said Amare couldn't shoot. I said he's not a huge threat from > 12 ft out. Ask *him*. I've gotten to watch a lot of Suns games this years because they are constantly on national TV (this is a good thing, of course). Amare was their inside presence and 1/2 of the pick'n'roll, he wasn't wandering aimlessly on the perimeter like, say, Rasheed Wallace, looking for the ball to pop a J. Amare can definitely hit the jumper, but he's not necessarily looking for it. Zach Randolph launched 4 threes last night. Now there's a guy convinced he's a threat from > 12 ft out. See the difference? Steve Nash can probably post-up effectively against the opposing PG, that's no reason to make that focal of the offense.

They don't run the pick n' roll to free up Amare from 17, they run it to break down the defense and free up Nash to make the defense overreact.

I dunno. A pissed-off Shaq could be a sight to behold, and give Phoenix more running opportunities with defensive boards and pass-outs, but it's such a huge gamble with his health, I just don't see it being worth disrupting their offense and gameplan.

Why would Shaq ever guard Dirk? Did you forget that in the NBA they can always go zone now if they were worried about a tall guy with a jumper pulling Shaq out of the lane. Based on experience alone and desire to beat the Lakers he would do a good job on Bynum.

Kobe would have been guarded by Diaw most of the time before Marion was traded, so they lose the guy who would have filled in during parts of the game but not the primary defender.

Your glossing over that when Parker and Ginobli come off their screens now and drive the lane, they will be met by a 7 foot 350 lb monster who might put them on their ass when they come in for little floaters or try to get all the way to the rim for layups. His presence in the lane alone will make other teams change up their game plan vs the Suns when on offense.

who has the cap room to sign Marion? Well there is Memphis and Atlanta and....

oh yeah I guess you were too busy staring at a poster of Manu to check into something like that. The Heat are going to be his ONLY attractive option for a long term deal. So the Heat get half a season to see if Wade works with Marion. If he does they keep him.

If he doesnt, they let him go, get tons of cap room and make a run at Elton Brand (who loves Miami, Pat Riley, the Eastern Conference, signed here once before when he was a Restricted FA and now is a UNrestricted FA)

Personally, I think Marion does all the little things that will help Wade look amazing again. I think the fit is perfect. But if not, how can you say you dont know what the Heat are doing!??!!?!?

They got Shaq, won a title, and now they have made the perfect trade to enter the re-building phase immediately. Right now, odds are strongly in favor that the Heat next year look like this: Wade, Marion/Brand, Haslem, Wright/Cook, top three pick (Beasley, Rose, Mayo, euro guys, etc).

considering how bad they are now that team looks like a damn good start in the east.

honestly, I would have told you there was a better chance the Heat trade Wade for CP3 and Tyson Chandler than the Heat would get someone to take Shaq off our hands AND we would get back a blue-chip piece.

this is amazing, the Heat go from salary cap hell to re-building heaven. imo, the Heat are back in the playoffs next year assuming the lottery balls dont completely f-ck them over.

That's what is so amazing. Everybody thought Miami was basically ****ed for the next few years and now they have the look of a team that could be a serious contender again in a few years.

Raja Bell covers Kobe. Period.

Centers rarely make it back for a fast break. Period. think about that and realize how ****ing right I am. Fast break usually consists of 3 actual sprinters.

Amare now gets to eat alive actual power forwards. Period.

I can't believe you profess to know the game and forgot the fits Bell gives Kobe.

All that being said, Shaq needs to stay healthy. To say that this makes the Suns worse is pushing it.

I'm laughing at me getting the him and Diaw mixed up.

Yeah I dunno how people forgot about Raja. He's solid.

In my mind he is one of the keys to making this doable. The starting 5 is now Nash, Bell,Hill, Stoudamire and Shaq. Hill was a question mark, may still be to a certain extent. Those 4 can run. Shaq might be able to run- when has he ever been asked to? I personally hated this trade for about 20 seconds, I LOVE Marion. That being said, that starting 5 can win the West this year, if they can stay healthy.

Seriously, I cannot wait to see what happens when Stoudamire gets to match up with guys more his size. With the attention that Shaq still commands I think you will see Stoudamire just go apeshit.

I think it remains to be seen how much attention he actually deserves.

Also, there are still plenty of good PF's Amare will have to guard, i.e. Boozer, Gasol (if and when Bynum gets healthy). Granted I'm not familiar with Amares defensive game though, so I guess we'll see.

O.k, then answer this. When people double off of Shaq to cover Amare what will happen? Shaq will dunk. So, Shaq will still deserve attention. Unless he isn't healthy.

You are missing the point. THEY now have to guard HIM. Boozer and Gasol can't guard Amare.

Once again, though, Shaq needs to be healthy.

Does Amare really demand that many double-teams? Again, I'm not terribly familiar with the Suns but from what I have seen it doesn't seem like he gets double-teamed too often. This is probably due to a lot of his opportunities coming from pick-and-rolls and cutting to the basket.

I honestly don't think it's going to hurt the Spurs any, which is really what I care about. Oberto/Elson will cover Shaq and Duncan will cover (I use that word verrrrry loosely) Amare.

I don't have much stock in Grant Hill. I think they are a little shallow on outside shooting actually, not that Marion has a great jumper (maybe it's good but his release is too goofy for me to ever acknowledge that) but I think they probably need another shooter.

Speaking of which, Korver to Jazz was a mugging, and he's doing way too well. I worry about the Jazz.

No whats hurting the Spurs is they can't get all three of thier big time players healthy at once.

Grant Hill to be effective really needs to have his minutes cut. The outside shooting should be fine for the Suns, Marion's release is ugly but it was effective, though he didn't do a lot of the outside shooting anyway.

The Jazz are scary good. All they need is experience.

Kobe gets whatever he wants against Bell. He has never given him fits and never will. There's a reason they switched Marion over on Kobe in the last 2 minutes every game.

Yea, to throw something at him to get him out of any comfort zone he might be in at that point in the game.

It's like switching from man to man to zone, it's just to give him a different look with another solid defender. If you don't think Bell gets under Kobe's skin you are insane.

Yes, he does.

I don't really agree. He gets double teams when the game is slowed down from some teams, but with the Suns offense he isn't normally in one spot long enough to get a double team.

I see you have a certain somebody who's name rhymes with Snowby as your avatar, which explains the statement. I forgive you your trespass.

This is what I like about Kobe fans, though, it's religous, which everyone knows I am big on. Evidence and facts be damned.

My avatar is Huey Freemon, it's from the show/webcomic the boondocks. I can't stand Kobe, keep trying. You can go look through the Laker thread if you want proof of my dislike of kobe.

Uh...

That's the key. I see you actually follow the Suns, and you are right, it just doesn't happen often because they are shooting the ball in under like 13 seconds. When a team manages to slow them down though he does, and in a half court playoff style offense he does and will. I am really looking forward to seeing this. I would love to see- and I am sure he would as well- Shaq stick it to the Lakers one last time.