How good a stud hi/low hand is [Ac 4c] 6c?

I was playing a HORSE tournament the other night and i raised an EP player who completed the bet, is that the right move?

Also in the HORSE, i folded [3x 5x] 9 in RAZZ to a complete, is that being really nitty?

1.) yes thats the right move

2.) It depends. (where you are and what cards are up)

In stud8 playing to scoop is the name of the game, and you definitely are ready to see 4th street with 3 suited babies.

As for that Razz hand, it's less valuable because the 9 is up, so you would be looking to "catch good" while your opponent(s) catch bad. Using that scenario, even KK(3) is about as powerful as a 9up, since you are looking to pull the "they catch bad/I catch good" scenario to win a pretty small pot. Gamble in big pots with good hands that have live outs. You start with an 8 or 9 up, and you are likely going to have to show down a hand, in a pot you were likely behind in from the start.

Heck, especially in cash games, even if your 9 is the lowest card showing in late position, the blind will likely defend if he's got 2 decent hole cards, and you aren't even far ahead in that scenario.

The perceived power of your hand is far greater in your ability to win the pot without confrontation. Which is also why hidden big pairs wiht a small upcard play so well in stud 8, because you are misdirecting what half of the pot your aiming at, and if you catch low you can raise to knock out other low draws, to get head up with someone going high. Drawing for the whole pot with a good hand is a nice scenario to be in.

Bleh.. I could type about this crap for hours. Wait till checky and frez get here, they'll add onto this splendidly, I'm sure.

hand one is an instacap in stud8 with the hidden ace and 3 sooted to a 6, unless your table is either:

a) so bad that you don't need to maximize value on 3rd and can play passively till 4th in order to lower variance
so nitty that if you raise this and get 3bet multiway you're always up against an overpair and a lower low draw

the only other way i'd maybe play passively on third here is if lots of non-pairing lows and clubs were dead.


as for the razz hand, sometimes i fold there, sometimes i don't. honestly, it would depend somewhat on my mood, lol. if the nine wasn't your door card, you def would be calling, but if the villain is good, he's going to be able to play well against you post-third if your door card is the one defining your hand. if the villain is weak and consistently goes one street too far, calling is fine.

Three suited babies ( 8 or lower ) starting in stud 8 are about as good as it gets.
Playing a 9 low in Razz is completely situational based on your opponents cards and the ones that are already up.

The A is the key card in all Hi/Lo games, for the obvious reason it plays both ways. Often you'll back into A's up with this kind of hand even when your flush and low fail to get there. I like just calling here. If you don't pick up a an A, another suited card or a baby on 4th street you can be done with it. If you hit, you can still bet on the come with a dump truck full of outs and 3 cards to come.

The 9 door card is tougher. Multiway, its certainly a brick. But you have two wheel cards down and if you make a wheel or 6 or even a 75, all the 76's and 8's are going to pay you off. The key to this one paying is that you need a multiway pot. You aren't going to get there often enough to make heads up worthwhile.

What he said...


Just back from the Christmas family visit road trip. I don't think I've been 5 days offline since I took a cruise 2 years ago! Nice to be back.

I have little to add to what the experts have already said, but I wanted to point out that folding the 9 in Razz also depends on the tournament situation. I don't know nearly enough limit tourneys, but think about having a low M in a NLHE tourney and pushing with any ace.

Let me add a question to this thread - which hand would people rather have in Stud8: [Ac 4c] 6c or [6c 4c] Ac?

Sorry for the double post, but I'm not sure of many situations here where I fold the A46 suited on 4th street to one (half) bet.

The 'Ace door' forces more folds in regular games. This is a hand that I'd like to win the max with, rather than a 4th street blowout.
Also, I like position, so be aware that an Ace door will usually act first on 4th and 5th. Therefore it's the '6 door' for me.

I rarely would want any low hand to have the permutation of 'ace door'; apart from weaker hands that have no great edge on 4th apart from fold equity. [3c 6d] Ah is an example of this. I'm leading 4th or c/fold in most scenarios, and am really hoping for a fold somewhere usually.